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Reader responses to Episcopal Life's coverage of the 76th General Convention
Responses to:
Bishops affirm openness of ordination process
Deputies support fully inclusive ordination process, ongoing commitment to communion
Convention approves Resolution D025, affirms openness of ordination process
Resolution to allow 'generous discretion' for same-sex blessings draws passionate debate
Resolution D025 draws mixed responses
Pray that D025 passes the House of Deputies. All members of TEC come before harmony with the Anglican Communion. Why a covenant? It is not needed.
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I regret Convention's choice to further test the bonds holding the Anglican Communion together. I regret more the lack of clear theological work and underpinnings for D025. The issue is not whether GBLT persons are welcome or can minister; hey have for generations, if not openly. At worst, persons identifying themselves as "homosexual" etc. are sinners, and therefore equal in value and dignity to me, a sinner, and I suspect to all of you. The issue for each aspirant to Orders is whether they are called, and whether they are repentant and strive to obey God's commands. And that brings us squarely to the root question, seemingly ignored by both sides, of whether genital sex with a same gender person is a sin requiring repentance or not. Scripture says what it says in that regard, and sound scholarship, prayer and discernment under the guidance of the Spirit are needed. Using either selective literalism or generic propositions conveniently applied to a particular case, I could justify ordination of a door knob.
When the ordination of women was undertaken, it was done so precipitously and provoked controversy. However, there was (if a bit after the fact) a well reasoned theology developed. I had hoped we had learned from that experience, and this time around would have worked on the theology and, without being requested by the rest of the Communion, would have "exercised restraint" and patience rather than again being confrontational. I yet hope, as the present resolution moves back to the House, that there will be discussion more in keeping with our history, that is utilizing Scripture, reason and tradition" rather than slogan and emotion.
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Stop using euphemisms--i.e. "gay." Are you afraid of the word homosexual?
I am a cradle Episcopalian and do not approve of the ordination of homosexuals. As far as I am concerned any approval of their lifestyle is approval of a third sex and probably giving them minority rights claims. Man and woman can reproduce and there is no way these who claim to be homosexual can reproduce. I have a lot of educated people trying to explain the homosexual lifestyle as normal; however, it ain't. I am not saying to not minister to them; just do not ordain them.
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How do we reconcile the Church's position on homosexuality when there is no ambiguity in Romans 1? I have been taught that the basis of our faith is Scripture, have we changed that also?
Is celibacy of a single person one of the requirements for ordination? Was Robinson married when he was ordained? Is it acceptable to change/break canon law to be an activist?
Do we now have the "right" to pick and choose which parts of Scripture and the Law we want to live by?
Where are our leaders? Are they so busy being "politically correct" that they sacrifice what we have tried to live and believe for 2000 years?
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It was inevitable. Social change is inevitable in every part of society, including the church (that is, the WHOLE church). Despite the hope of evangelical Protestants and Roman Catholics that they're "in the world, but not of the world," they, too, are tied to the larger society and inevitably they, too, reflect the changing norms of society. It's just a matter of time. One particular change has powered many other changes -- that is, the emancipation of women. Wherever women have become full human beings and fully included in all the activities of society, change has been unstoppable. Once The Episcopal Church allowed women to vote at its national convention in the early '70s, the rest of the story was already written. Thanks be to God.
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The Episcopal Church is self-destructing. How is a family like mine supposed to treat as a shepherd a clergyman who does not value the bible, and with whom we have nothing in common? This why the church is shrinking by the hour.
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"The House of Deputies by more than a 2-1 margin adopted a resolution July 12 that declares the ordination process of the Episcopal Church open to all individuals while expressing its ongoing commitment to the Anglican Communion."
Considering that all of those who voted for this measure have no concern for keeping the Episcopalian church within the Anglican Communion anyone who voted yes should be removed. You say you are committed to the communion but do not care for nor consult the other branches. It is a sad day for the Anglican Communion.
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Why have people started accepting sin? Have you forgotten God's word?
God made it plain...it is sin. There is no compromise, no justification. Judgement is coming. God is not slack concerning his word.
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Hallelujah! I'm so proud of us. May God bless all those who voted for inclusiveness and sanity and love. I pray that those who just don't understand yet will try to be the best people they can be, and stop judging others. I pray also that we don't split from the Church of England -- that we may still be in the Anglican Communion.
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The world tells us we're wrong and still we proceed. Scripture tells us we're wrong and still we proceed; putting the desires of man above the desires of God, becoming less the church and more the cult. The good news is that like Government Motors, we won't have to change our initials.
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Thanks be to God and to those who voted in favor or Resolution D025!
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There are representatives there from each diocese but I wonder what all Episcopalians think on this matter. I wish everyone had a chance to vote on this resolution.
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Congratulations on your historic step toward an open and honest church. Please note that Bishop Robinson is not only in a long term relationship, he is legally married. As we know from the struggle to gain marriage equality, there is a profound difference.
Thanks for your article!
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Couldn't we please have the courage to say that we have come to understand human sexuality differently than we once had, and that we believe that "alternative life styles" are completely legitimate. Furthermore, that had the scriptures been written in this contemporary context, they would have affirmed these life styles.
If we cannot say that, are the actions our church is taking truly appropriate?
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I would like to address only one response that was made in the published record of the debate. Bishop Geralyn Wolf of Rhode Island said something that to me is puzzling: that if Do25 is passed, it would "presume a theological understanding that we have not in fact established."
I am puzzled because the only theological understanding that we could possibly have as a church is the Incarnation itself, and on this we have surely reached an understanding. What seems to pose the problem for the Anglican Communion in some parts of the world is what it means to live into the implications of the Incarnation. If we believe that in Jesus God took human flesh, then it is a serious matter indeed for any Christian, let alone the Church itself, to attempt to define who is included in Christ's humanity and who is not. Apparently these things were easier for the first generation of Christians than they are for our own! Peter's dream is one clear example. The decision by the church in Jerusalem to accept Gentiles into the Church without circumcision is another! If God became Man for our sakes, then the time may have come for the Church to stop drawing lines in the sand that separate one part of humanity from another on the basis of identity. This should have been our earliest theological understanding, not one we still are debating.
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I have tried to accept this idea, and I can't. I can't alter my beliefs, based on biblical teaching, to have them coincide with the acts of the Episcopal Church.
I have no choice but to look for another church. I am saddened that it has come to this. You can't accept portions of the Bible as the foundation for your religion, and ignore others when it is expedient.
Following the teaching of Christ in a secular world is hard, it is easy not to do it. The Episcopal religion is today an easier religion than yesterday.
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Come on!
The resolution does not "open ordination to gays and lesbians". Such ordination has not been closed for years -- ever since the canon was passed disallowing discrimination in the discernment process on the basis of sexual orientation.
B033 did NOT exclude GLBT's from the ordination process -- it only "urged restrain" in confirming bishops-elect whose "manner of life" might not be generally accepted. (Note: The bishop-elect of N. Michigan was apparently -- not confirmed because his "manner of life" included re-writing liturgies without authority to do so.]
B033 still stands -- and, indeed, I hope all Standing Committees and bishops will always "use restraint" if a bishop-elect's "manner of life" is unacceptable.
All that aside, I hugely celebrate the resolution passed by the HoB: it is irenic, calm, based on canonical reality, and not confrontational. It's just right!
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I did not read any reference to the issue of authority discussed in this pre-resolution meeting. Where does the authority of scripture and tradition intersect with the request to accommodate culture? Do these two sources of authority continue to offer clarity on the celebration of relationships and unions? Do these matter any more to who we are as an apostolic and catholic tradition? Historic and apostolic Christianity has usually been counter to culture as our Lord Jesus was to the culture of His day. Jesus could have affirmed certain relationships that would have been counter to the culture in his day but did not do so. I believe it was the authority of scripture and tradition that made this a non-issue at the time. I don't imagine that by this silence toward gay and lesbian relationships in his day that Jesus was cruel or ignoring the needs of his people. Marriage equality will continue to be an issue for government but the latter does not govern the Church nor can it decide in matters of sacrament. The Church prayerfully seeking clarity from its sources of authority and not from emotion or cultural precedence must make its decision on whether to admit blessings of all relationships as a sacrament. It does not appear yet what this will be and whether the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace can be possible at this time. The leaving and cleaving of Christians will continue on both sides of this debate if our Church does come to a strong identity of its mission that all can embrace.
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I can only think of one appropriate Episcopal response to this joyous event: Thanks be to God!
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I am wondering if God has any say so in the midst of all of this. I thought that our sole purpose in the kingdom of God was to please God. After all it is his kingdom, isn't it?
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I have been praying for discernment for all participants in the Convention, and I continue to do so. I rejoice in passage of this bill by the House of Bishops.
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How can 99 bishops vote against Holy Scripture?
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In last Sunday's Gospel reading in Mark we see that John the Baptist was beheaded for being prophetic and speaking God's truth. To hear lay and ordained say that allowing all persons access to all the sacraments is refreshing. I love the Anglican Communion but not to the place that I must exclude who God welcomes at Baptism and for all of the other sacraments of the church. It is time for all of us to be prophetic and not exclude, bar or place moratoriums on anyone that God calls to ministry and service in God's church. This is not my, your or our church, it is God's Church and we are only members of it.
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I am proud of my church today.
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B025 is a big, big mistake. It is going to separate us from most of the rest of the Anglican Communion, likely result in TEC being kicked out, and TEC's gradual demise such as the demise that has left the United Church of Christ a shadow of what it once was. What it provides is already the case in much of TEC and really didn't need to be said.
B033 needs to stay in place. It may be the only thing keeping us in the Anglican Communion for the time being.
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I applaud the Episcopal Church in this bold and daring, yet prophetic and Christ-like move! I think I can say that many Anglicans in Mexico are in agreement! God bless you all in your witness to the rest of the Anglican Communion!
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I am disturbed by the phrase "continued participation of the Episcopal Church in the Anglican Communion." I thought the Episcopal Church IS the Anglican Communion in the USA, in the sense of a worldwide catholic Church of Anglican obedience understood ontologically rather than something we have voluntarily decided for the time being. We have always had gay clergy, as indeed other branches of the Anglican Communion have always had; but lately, in some areas, they have come out of the "closet" with their sexuality and some have difficulty dealing with this honesty. Hopefully further scientific revelations may help the acceptance of this fact. In the meantime the communion is a family in which different opinions about this phenomenon exist. As a family, we need to recognize and discuss this, as Canterbury urged a few years ago.
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The Rev. Ralph Stanwise (Quincy) said, "If we overturn the B033 moratorium we will in effect be urging many remaining conservatives and moderates among us and in our home dioceses, especially our most fragile ones, to search for the exit signs."
I ask: And what of the less-conservative and liberal that have already left a church that it has found damaging to their very essence? What of the people who are searching for a truly loving and inclusive church to come home to? Might we not regain some of those we have already lost? Might we not grow by a not-so-insignificant amount as we make people truly welcome in our worship?
And I say: Thankfully, this is not a numbers game. It is a question of how best may we Episcopalians express and live out what we understand to be the call of God's love for everybody as expressed in our Gospels, our tradition, and our most enlightened understanding of our fellow human beings.
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After careful reading of the resolution, I understand it to refer to gay and lesbian persons in committed relationships. Does this reference include gay and lesbian persons who are not in relationships?
Where do gay and lesbian single persons stand?
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With this action the Episcopal Church has reached bottom in terms of its disobedience to God. Realizing that the Church long ago jettisoned the 39 Articles, I will point out that by this action the Episcopal Church violates Articles XIX and XX of the 39 Articles and allows us to ask if the Episcopal Church is in fact a church as defined in the Articles and in Scripture.
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I am clearly saddened by the passing of this resolution. Nowhere in this article is the Bible quoted. It is very clear. Those people who engaged in the act of homosexuality are not in the body of Christ. It is an abomination to God. Go back to the Bible. Read its words. Embrace the truth. You are one of the churches that John writes about. You have lost your first love. To think that the clergy in this church voted 77-19 in favor of it boggles my mine and hurts my spirit.
This is such a tragedy
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This is a sad day in the life of my church. My church has been hijacked.
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I cannot express my depth of disappointment with this decision. I am a cradle Episcopalian, still a confirmed and pledging member of the Diocese of Louisiana, although I work and live in Falls Church, Virginia. I cannot see myself converting from the Episcopal Church, but I do see that the Episcopal Church is converting away from me. This has made me terribly sad.
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D025 is clear: follow the Constitution and Canons of the Episcopal Church in selecting our leaders. To do otherwise is non-democratic and violates the spirit of the democratic process established by our church, the Episcopal Church, at its creation. Simply follow the rules, honor the democratic process.
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I'm on my way to the Exit sign.
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Bing D. Bills Scotch Plains, New Jersey
I am so proud to be an Episcopalian. My church has stood up and followed the Gospel. Although much trauma and loss will occur over the passage, much has been gained in the dignity and integrity of our branch of the Anglican Communion.
LOS ANGELES: Episcopalians join hotel worker protest
I wonder if any of the GC attendees who joined with the Unite Here protesters know the facts surrounding Disney's proposal on healthcare? I admit that I do not. However, with 30-plus years of benefits experience I do know some of the questions: how much is Disney paying into the union health plan currently? What are the union plan benefits compared to Disney's proposed coverage? What are the monthly costs per worker between the two (union and Disney) plans? Over what period of time will workers go from paying nothing for family coverage to $500 per month? If they are paid $11 per hour now, what will their negotiated pay be when their cost hits $2.89 per hour
I hope those who joined in supporting one side of the issue knew all these answers. Otherwise they were just like Pavlov's dogs: salivating when the bell rang.
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As a Disney worker of more than 20 years, I want to thank all of the folks from the Episcopal Church Convention for helping and supporting us today in our struggle against Disney. Although all of your prayers and moral support are greatly appreciated, we will really need your support if we call for a boycott. We need you to take this message back to your congregations and tell them to boycott all Disney products when such action is called for.
Unfortunately these tactics are the only things that will get Disney's attention and force them to do the right thing for the workers of the Disneyland Hotels.
Thank you again and God Bless all of you and your church.
Bishops to consider Rachel's Tears, Hannah's Hopes
I find using the word "repentance" objectionable. It is putting abortion into a sin category, and it ignores the huge complexity of the decision by a woman to obtain an abortion. Let's trust women to make their decisions, and if they want a rite, the BCP can accommodate them without something new.
Repentance for slavery has a long way to go, say advocates
I am well aware that as a fair-complexioned descendant of European-Americans who bought other human beings my statements and opinions are in and of themselves suspect, and that I will immediately be characterized as an evil of which the Episcopal Church needs to rid itself. At least, that's what I get out of this resolution. Many areas of the country where slavery was common have paid many times over since the end of the Civil War for their sins. It has taken over 100 years for the residents of the South and Deep South to dig themselves out of the abject poverty caused by the war and the collapse of the economic structure.
From who are these reparations to be gotten? Will those of us who have never owned slaves ourselves and who have finally emerged from generations of tenant farms and company stores be expected to pay? How many generations are going to be told that the color of their skin makes them racist by definition? Is that somehow acceptable? How is that in itself not racism in another guise? How exactly does this promote understanding between people of color and those of us who are "colorless"? Even the language used to describe them is offensive to me.
To me, it sounds like the church is more interested in financing historical research and personal artistic navel gazing than in really building bridges between people. It seems more like the Pharisee making a show of his repentance that Jesus preached against. We are spending too much time trumpeting how sorry we say we are than reaching out a hand to help the human being, whatever the shade, who is in need.
Bishops adopt $3.5 million plan to evangelize Latinos/Hispanics
It is heartening, yet a bit disconcerting to read about this initiative to increase the number of Spanish-speaking congregations. Here in my diocese we are moving to close a largely Spanish-speaking parish, shift its congregation to another location, and probably sell its property. It is very sad for the residents of the neighborhood in which the parish now serves. St. James' outreach ministries will be sorely missed in that impoverished area. However, they are not able to become "viable"--which is to say, financially self-supporting. In Hartford our Spanish speakers are predominantly lower-middle and below in the socio-economic spectrum. They are hard-working people often trying to balance several jobs with their family responsibilities. Their tithing is usually expressed by "in kind" offerings of time and labor. Doesn't pay the light bill or the clergy salaries, though. My vision of the Kingdom of Heaven is a place where church will not be only for those who can afford it.
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The Latino population certainly needs to be welcomed into The Episcopal Church enthusiastically, but it will take more than money to enable them to participate fully, including:
1. Bilingual clergy that want to incorporate the individual into full participation in the church community, baptizing during services rather than in private, developing true corporate worship, and teaching the use of all the legs of the three-legged stool as a substitute for the concept of the priest as the intermediary between the individual and God and the final decision-maker in financial matters.
2. Relinquishment of the all-pervasive notion that Latinos, because of their culture, can't learn to participate responsibly in running their own congregations, including supporting them by direct giving and observing the national and diocesan constitutions and canons.
3. Promotion of the concept that "neighbor" as in Luke 10: 25-37 includes other Latinos outside one's own family, and others, beyond one's own community.
Four-footed ambassadors attend hearings
Thank you for covering this story. I was surprised to be mentioned in the article.
I just wanted to clarify, in case I didn't state it well in my testimony, that I asked them to include prayers for sick and dying animals (and not just for animals that are already dead and don't personally need our prayers), and also prayers for guidance for people who have to make the decision to euthanize, etc.
This resolution is mostly about pastoral care for people. So I just wanted to add a little reminder that the animals' situations are at the heart of it, and that something for their well-being should also be included.
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